I think the best point you made in the post is that people don't believe everything they say in polls. I quote polls a lot, because they can remove my biased view of the world to give me insights my biases wouldn't normally allow, but there are indeed flaws. Most Christians, when presented with a challenge like a poll question, might tend to present themselves as more conservative than they are.
Richard Dawkins gave a talk last year wherein he said tht after writing The God Delusion he had been approached by many Christians (including clergy) who said, essentially, that they no longer believed in God in any meaningful way, but that rejecting Christianity would be a rejection of their family and friends and the only community they really knew, and that that was the larger hurdle to disavowing their faith in God.
All that having been said, if half of Americans say they believe in Young Earth Creationism, even with our mitigating statements, a whole ton of people believe in YEC, or at least don't think deeply enough about the issue to know it's moronic to believe it.
I still argue that we have to proceed with the discussion of faith driving morality with the stipulation that Christianity, and specifically Biblical Christianity, is believed by most people to be the driving force of morality in the United States.
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So let's do bring an issue into focus. I would like to examine how Christians generally beleive we should deal with non-believers.
Thomas Aquinas, in Summa contra Gentiles and Summa Theologiae concludes that heretics should be killed. I think we'd agree that this would have been a pretty widely held belief amongst Catholics at the time (in fact he was sainted almost 100 years later, so his views would have to have been considered as authoratative, yes?).
I think we could also agree that almost no modern sect of Christianity, no matter how fundamentalist, would agree that killing the heretic is justfied.
Chritianity has moderated to a great degree in the last 700 years. The question is, has it moderated and driven Western Culture before it (morally speaking), or has the secularization of the West pulled Christianity toward that change in attitude?
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Matt: Richard Dawkins gave a talk last year wherein he said tht after writing The God Delusion he had been approached by many Christians (including clergy) who said, essentially, that they no longer believed in God in any meaningful way, but that rejecting Christianity would be a rejection of their family and friends and the only community they really knew, and that that was the larger hurdle to disavowing their faith in God.
Jim: This is a little off topic, but I know it is interesting to you. I do believe in God. I subscribe to a notion of panentheism. That is, God is everything and then some. So, God is all that we perceive and more. Does that mean God is a part of evil--yes. Does that mean we are a part of God--yes. But, God is a something beyond that.
Why do I believe that? Well, in prayer I feel the presence of God. I don't feel alone in my head or my heart.
Certain things are very hard for me: miracles & prayer for two. I'll try to fill in bits and pieces of what I believe about God as we go along.
I don't know that I fully understand, although this got me closer.
1) Are you saying that the creator of the universe is also the universe itself?
2) And this is an assumption based on your feelings during prayer?
3) Do you believe the God you feel is conscious and aware of you?
Forgive the questions, I'm not trying to pin you down for any reason other than to understand. The nature of this is obviously pretty important.
My follow-up question to the above answer is perhaps most important of all: if the answer to the last question (number 3) is 'yes', why do you think I do not feel that? What is the explanation for a God who is conscious, and only allows certain people to be aware of Him?
And finally, if 1, 2, and 3, are answerable as 'yes' for you, do you feel you know your perception of God is real, or do think this God is real?
Matt
Matt: Are you saying that the creator of the universe is also the universe itself?
Jim: I am saying exactly that.
Matt: And this is an assumption based on your feelings during prayer?
Jim: Prayer is an important place where I observe this. However, shortly after writing that I realized how incomplete it was. I also observe the presence of God when marveling at nature or art. Likewise, when carrying out acts of charity and love. So, I observe the presence of a "something more" frequently in my daily living.
Matt: Do you believe the God you feel is conscious and aware of you?
I do. But this is an undeveloped belief I hold. What I really believe is a negative. I don't accept that the universe is the sum of uninterested and uncaring parts. So, I believe in a universal consciousness that is aware of me, and you. But recognize this is challenging for me.
Matt: Why do you think I do not feel that? What is the explanation for a God who is conscious, and only allows certain people to be aware of Him?
Jim: This is a good question because it is better than why does God let bad things happen. Bad things are a logical necessity if anything happens. But, why not create humans in a fashion as to allow all humans to be aware of God's presence?
I think it is related to the difference between knowledge and appreciation. Like, if you were at a Scotch tasting and a novice said to you, "Just tell me which one is best." Would the novice then know which is the best Scotch? Yes, I suppose. But not in any meaningful way. I think the answer is in there somewhere.
Matt: Do you feel you know your perception of God is real, or do think this God is real?
Jim: I believe God is real. Not one of the choices, right? Well here's the deal. I know George Washington was the first Constitutional President of the United States. I believe/think the first battle of the Revolution was fought at Concord. I believe Democracy is the best form of government.
My point here is that believe can be more and less than know. The first use, a synonym for think, is less than.
Taken from another direction, I am as sure that God exists as I am that love exists. Some people have never loved another. For them, it would be very hard to explain that love is something real and more than just enjoying the company of a person you want to have sex with.
I'm not sure if it really is more clear on the second writing, but I hope it gives some insight into where I'm coming from.
Love,
JimII
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